ukan | IC CONTACT

He blinks at the warning not to give input, as he'd-

"I never intended to give you input on 'how' to act as Pagan's warden. My intention was always to provide you context and knowledge specific to our... lifestyle, as requested." It would be, in his estimation, like backseat driving. It's one thing to tell someone what the traffic patterns are like when requested, quite another to tell them what directions they should take. He looks at Lark.

"The moment we became friends, put trust in one another, I could no longer be objective." Worrying that his language hasn't properly expressed what he means, he adds "Mixing business and friendship never works out for either."

He looks down to his tea.

"Part of my considerations had to do with acting on my feelings or burying them. I've buried them before and I know how to pretend as if I'm simply" he tilts his head mildly "too 'dense' to notice. But to reject Pagan, even like that, seemed from my position as a friend, as someone who cares for him, to be something that would definitely harm him. Regardless of my reasons, he would 'know' his own."

He heard enough that he doesn't think that this is a leap of logic so much as pointing out the obvious.

"The breach... made everything more obvious, removed the option to ignore the elephant in the room. The options were to cause immediate harm, damage our connection, and potentially destroy any trust we had in one another should- should something like the last flood reveal my feelings regardless. Or I could be honest with him and decide with him what we would do about our feelings and pursue a relationship if it was something we both were interested in."

He puts the tea down.

"I am aware that this has the potential for harm to him, but when my options presented are 'potential good and potential harm' or 'immediate harm with a potential to lose or damage our connection', I chose the option which I thought was best for both of us."

He settles his hands in his lap.

"A power differential is not-" how to explain? "An imbalance in power in the world we live in is a reality of every relationship, because that world works on a very strict hierarchy, one which every person within that hierarchy is aware of. Navigating a power imbalance carefully and gracefully is more in line with that world. It would not serve as a reason, in and of itself, to Pagan." He bows his head. "In truth, it doesn't to me either. It's a concern, and a constant tension, but not a reason to deny someone."

He hears it all, but this all still feels like he's being told there's a fire after the building has burned to the ground.

What his mind sticks on is painful and he hates it but he'll own it. "You're right. Business and friendship don't mix. And I've been viewing him primarily as a friend."

Not the worst mistake he's ever made, but it follows a distinct pattern. He has some dangerous blindspots when it comes to any sort of close friendship.

But he learns from his mistakes, little by little.

He nods and he does bow his head to Lark in apology. There is one thing that he feels bad about.

"I did not realize you were unaware of... everything. And I was hesitant to share my own feelings with you as it might be seen as 'asking permission'."

Something which, if Pagan got wind of it, would almost certainly blow up in all of their faces. And, as far as Kiryu's concerned, they'd deserve it. Pagan, whatever else he was, was not a child.

"No, neither of you need my permission, and I'd be insulted if you'd tried. I just don't know at what point I thought he trusted me enough to talk about it, and if we were ever there to begin with."

He has deep issues with Kiryu's decision, but at least the man has said something and is willing to talk through the sticking points.

"But that's not something you can answer," he shrugs, turns his attention back across the table to the man there. "How long has it been going on?"

That's another blink.

"'Going on'?"

Yeah, he's not really sure what's being asked here. He's been pretty up front about the timeline.

"We haven't started the relationship. Whatever our feelings, we currently remain friends. He left the decision in my hands, and I thought it best to work through these issues first before... officially starting."

He hasn't even kissed him. But his eye is on Lark.

"If he decides not to pursue the relationship after the two of you talk, I would respect that. And remain his friend. In some ways, that might be cleaner. But his well-being remains my main concern."

He'll figure something out for himself. He always does. ~~It's called being alone.~~

He takes a long breath, feels his thoughts begin to organize again.

"That isn't what I want. The last thing I want is to be an obstacle. I have misgivings about the ethics, and I want boundaries we all agree to because this isn't just an ordinary relationship in an ordinary place. Feeling something for you and being willing to explore it is perhaps the least self destructive thing he's done lately.

"My issue is that I've done something to keep him from having faith in me. And I think I've unfairly tried to put some of that on you, so I apologize."

Kiryu, privately, has his own suspicions on why Pagan wouldn't have told Lark. He doesn't think it has anything to do with a lack of trust or a lack of faith, at least not in Lark. It makes him think of all the times he'd tried to handle his problems without involving Kazama-san.

And how it felt when he walked through the door and fixed them anyway.

It's not his place to say, as they just went over.

"Of course, Lark-san." A dip of his head. "I realize this is not a simple or easy situation."

He looks back to Lark.

"I also hope I haven't lost you as a mentor."

But if he did, he did.

"You haven't," he says immediately. He softens it with a smile, which eases his own tension. "I'd be a very poor mentor if I only wanted to help you when things were easy to navigate. I'm sorry for coming in as abrasively as I did, you didn't deserve that."

"I would have been more upset if you'd been calm," he says earnestly, picking up his tea again. He sips most of it down before he speaks again.

"You didn't know how I was approaching this. And your priority is Pagan. Not my feelings."

"He is, but that doesn't mean I don't put weight on your feelings." He pours himself some more tea. "I feel better about this from your end. I don't know how I'll feel about it from his. But I think you should pursue it, regardless."

He nods and he sits, staring into his tea for a moment or two. There's something else, and this is something that he hasn't talked to Pagan about. It ties into everything he's been thinking but it's not a concern Pagan should worry about.

"You also know how empty my life is now," he says plainly. He'd told Lark about his deal, about leaving behind everyone he'd lived for for the last ten years. His daughter, his grandson, the rest of his kids. His friends and allies.

"If you thought my reasoning was completely unsound, I would trust you to tell me so."

"I would tell you," he agrees. If there was any lingering defensiveness, it's gone now. "Because I trust that you'll hear me out if I tell you I think you're headed for something dangerous. I think you're good for Pagan. And I think at heart, he's a good person. But he makes poor decisions; that's why he's here. I don't want those to end up hurting you."

A firm nod.

He has his suspicions about what Pagan is, and why, but he's told Lark that he'll stay out of his wardening. Whatever help that Pagan gives Kiryu is the love of a friend... and, soon enough, he hopes, more. It still hasn't happened and the bad luck of many years has him hesitant to believe it will until it has.

He pours himself some tea as well and there's a few moments of peace and quiet before he considers the moment and dips his head to look at Lark.

"May I ask you about something else?"

It feels undeservedly good to have this matter settled into something he feels good about. He's absorbing it all when Kiryu speaks, and he sits up a little straighter. "Of course. Anything."

He takes a moment and reaches into his pocket, pulls out his communicator, and takes a moment to scan until he finds the post. Lark's post. Then he reaches forward and points to... *all* of the replies.

"Is something missing on my communicator?"

"Some private conversations," Lark says, guessing that's what he means. Several of the conversations seem to just end as they're switched over to private filters.

"And whatever context Misty or William have around the murder. I was asked to find the killer in a recent murder; it was William, so I reported it. That's all the information I had."

He winces a little because, well, he realizes he's bad with technology and Pagan may have mentioned that, but he'd figured that out soon enough. Privacy, and the ability to utilize it, is important.

"No, not that." He points to one of the entries.

"Your posting. It's not shortened?"

Because otherwise, he's very confused.

"It's all the information I had," he says mildly, but he knows what Kiryu is asking. Or what he should be asking.

"For one thing, I only knew who was involved in it. For another...it doesn't matter what was being done about it. People insist they want to know what's being done to create a sense of justice. Acknowledging that a crime was done is the first step, and we keep trying to skip over it."

That provides more, but there's still a lot of questions. The chief among them being-

"Why does everyone keep mentioning retribution? Or acting as if you've violated someone's privacy?" He lets those sit for a moment before he pulls the communicator closer again and scrolls down to Misty's post. He's not sure how to address that, so he just tucks his communicator back into his pocket.

"There's seems so much assumed in both postings."

"They're assuming that I wanted a mob to go after William, and they're assuming that I doubt Misty, and neither of those things is true. But that's one reason I did it this way...to see who puts the worst assumptions and makes the largest leaps away from logic." A small frown. "That's the one area I've been disappointed; I thought fewer people would go straight for 'Lark wants a riot'."

He sits back with a sigh. "I don't think it does anything except enable a murderer, or an abuser, to keep violence quiet. But silence does make things more comfortable for everyone else, so that's what they seem to want."

Kiryu listens to Lark’s answer, and it’s clear that he has mixed feelings about it. He takes his time, pulling his tea into his hand but not sipping it as he works through the thoughts and tries to coalesce them into words. When he feels he has them, there’s a soft nod (mostly to himself) before he meets Lark’s eyes.

“May I make an observation?”

"You may," he says, with the unspoken caveat that Lark almost invariably sees things at a different slant than most people do. He values Kiryu's opinions, though, enough to give this a serious ear.

A quick nod in acknowledgement before he continues.

“You asked me once if I was familiar with dealing with wary people. And I told you that I was, as most people in the world I live in are wary. To ask something of a wary person, you need to establish trust. Either trust in a... shared understanding, a social binding, or personal trust.”

He looks to Lark then.

“Personal trust is difficult to establish in large groups, but a shared understanding allows for those groups to act for the betterment of all. A shared understanding is even more difficult when wary people come from different worlds and different backgrounds. Even within the same world, I have seen a businessman who had turned yakuza struggle with the difference in how the two ‘worlds’ function. Or two yakuza, one who handles financial work and another who acts as an enforcer, struggle to find an equilibrium in a shifting social understanding.”

He sips his tea because he keeps needing to talk so much.

“The most important thing that keeps this understanding between people is the knowledge that it benefits all those involved. They have been shown that benefit and the system functions because everyone upholds that understanding accordingly.”

He puts the tea down.

“I agree with your thoughts, Lark-san: abuse and murder should not be hidden. Even if a warden ultimately has the greatest say in how their inmate is handled, transparency is important for the community. There should be a social understanding that such actions have consequences, and that they affect not just those involved, but everyone here. Because they do. We all exist in this community together and guidelines around acceptable behavior are healthy and beneficial for all.

“But your approach only makes wary people more wary. In your own words, it was an experiment. A test.” And that never feels good. “It places you as arbiter of the system instead of part of it, and does not ask others to ‘buy in’ to an understanding. It demands it and shames those who, because of their past experience, may not know what benefits it may offer. And that can damage the opportunity for trust to build. Especially from a warden.”

Edited 2021-06-01 15:14 (UTC)

He listens, his gaze never quite wavering. "Understand that I agree with all of that. But." He pours a little more tea.

"I assume you're familiar with two way glass. With standing on one side, and watching how people react to their reflections. And to what they think is on the other side. It creates a situation that is at once honest and guarded. When you know where someone's fears truly lie, that's where you begin to build trust. Not always from careful niceties."

A careful look. "That's what two sentences can do. That's what a long silence can teach. I'm not afraid of people facing something that makes them more wary, because when they face it they can see for themselves that it isn't going to hurt them after all."

“But it may hurt them.”

He dips his head in a silent request to explain.

“It may hurt them, not because it should, but because others are not ready to see. You can hand children utensils and tell them they are for food. But if one child stabs another with that fork as you go to get the plates, another lesson will be learned as well. Usually by the child who was patiently waiting for their meal, and the children across the table who weren’t involved. And the lesson they see will stick with them more than any you try to teach.”

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