Scott wouldn't entirely blame Lark for choosing not to sleep in his bed in anything but fur, but Scott isn't going to argue with him, either. "Our slumber parties suck."
He studies Lark for a moment, He thinks about getting up and moving to the bed, then instead thunks his head back against the wall, with his eyes closed behind the glasses. "Do you know what the primary difference between us is?" He's not going to earn respect points here, but he just doesn't care. "You want to rebuild that pack and be in charge of it."
"Shut your damn mouth, I enjoy them," Lark retorts effortlessly, because it's exactly what he says to Alec's griping. Except that Alec is almost always grinning and playing when he says it, so Lark looks at Scott to be sure that landed all right.
"Yes, I do. But it's also a biological imperative for me. If I wasn't driven toward it the way a salmon is driven upstream, I'd probably be..." Not alone. But something else. He shakes his head, unable to even picture being anything but how he is. "My mentor wants me to quit the pack. But that's--it's not retirement. It's suicide. Literally, wolves on their own last a few months if they're lucky. A day if they're not."
It landed fine. Scott even manages to summon up some kind of a crooked smile to show Lark that it did and it's fine. He's perfectly comfortable with that kind of remark from Lark, at least in the absence of some pretty strong tells that he's not playing with him.
"Who the hell is your mentor and are they stupid?" Scott asks, temporarily distracted from his (self-indulgent) ... revelations? Honesty? Attempts to get something out of his head and into open air, in the general direction of another person? To connect with someone or to hope like hell this gets thrown back in his face.
Fuck, he doesn't know. Something.
It's temporary distraction, anyway. "Retire instead of die hasn't been a possibility for me in a long, long, time."
"Tati," Lark answers, his voice dry, "And sometimes he is. He's a genius with tactics, though."
Mostly he thinks Tati wants him out of the packs because Lark can't leave well enough alone. It's not enough to have a pack, it has to be the one with the most money, the most power. Lark's ambitions kill people.
"So what's the tactical advantage in getting you to retire?"
He has to assume there's something. He reaches up and turns the overhead light off, leaving them with lamp light. It'll be an easier transition to bed when they get there.
"No. My deal is going to give me the people I need to make one last run at giving the people who survive a world worth living in, and a choice beyond fighting or dying. I have burned every personal connection I have ever had getting this far, and I can no more stop being a soldier than you can stop being a wolf - but I don't particularly like being a soldier or leader anymore, either." If he ever did.
"I honestly don't know." But Lark frowns. It's almost a grimace. "How naive do I sound when I say that every now and then I think he's the only person in my life who has ever just wanted me to be happy?"
Not naive, he decides. Just stupid.
"I think if people live long enough they all burn out on what defines them."
Lark looks at him a long minute, like he's been told the ice is not as thin as it looks, to just try it, really.
"You and I both know if it came to it you'd use me. If I was paired with you instead. It's not a bad thing--but we're not selfless people. I don't expect you to be. I don't know that there is such a thing. For all I know, what I'm not sure how to interpret in Tati isn't altruism, it's just laziness and a lack of creativity."
But softer, so much softer, "I believe you want me to have better than I do, though. And I can't say that about most people."
He is somewhat appeased - and reassured - that Lark is at least willing to recognize that at least where Lark is now he isn't a means to an end. Lark is the end. Lark is a goal, and an objective. Maybe not one that's any more achievable than saving mutants, but not the tool, not the process, but the end product.
Getting, being, and having better. Not him having Lark.
Okay, no, he doesn't believe Lark's quite there or will get there until Clark graduates and Scott's still stubbornly there, but he knows Lark being willing to grant even what he has is a big deal.
He casts around for a response and what he ultimately comes up with is a question. "What exactly is selfless? Can you think of a single scenario that counts?" Because Scott isn't sure he can. Not using Lark's definition. No, not even Jean suiciding to save them.
He shakes his head, but he frowns, too. Because he has a deep suspicion that maybe Tati is it and he doesn't want that to be true. What is Lark if he kills the only person who ever loved him unconditionally?
"I need some mental gymnastics sometimes," he admits, "But no. Even Tati. He owes me; not enough to justify dying in a battle he doesn't understand, but he still owed me a debt."
He breathes out heavily and looks at Scott, hoping for an answer, hoping against it as well. "Can you?"
"No." He doesn't sound upset about it, but his answer isn't just that, either. "If you take selflessness literally, the concept is stupid, and it doesn't exist in any living organism, much less any of the sentient ones."
He adjusts his position, drops one leg and keeps the other knee bent up. He's being more blunt, less careful and more refined than he'd otherwise be. "We do what works for us. We seek out what rewards us, and we avoid what hurts." That's just - reality. "The only real question that's worth anything is what someone finds rewarding and punishing." He's not cynical, though, not entirely and not about this. "Tati may follow you into a battle he doesn't understand because he finds the idea of living in debt to you more unpleasant than dying. He may also follow you into a battle he doesn't understand because he finds the idea of not supporting you more painful than his own death. They're both ultimately selfish, but he's doing one because he loves you and the other because he's afraid of you, or of losing face. You get the same end result, but what they say about who he is changes."
Lark nods--what rewards us, yes, that's exactly how he analyzes people.
"Here's what I don't like: the idea that selfishness is inherently wrong. Or that it's more wrong than selflessness, whatever form that takes. Selfishness is what allows me to choose to stay alive, therefore making me available for the people I love." Or person. He's not sure how many people he loves at all. "Selfishness is actually what keeps not just a person, but an entire civilization, moving along. It's what allows us to have happiness, to experience pleasure. To know ourselves."
He shrugs, slightly. "There's nothing wrong with being selfish. As a term, much less a means of judgement, it's meaningless. It's also usually the sign of someone who's invested in being a better person than someone else, or just making someone else feel like a bad one. The only purpose of the word is as a means of manipulation." Yes, yes he does sound a little amused when he says that.
"The balance and order of those things in an individual is what morality and conscience are. Selfishness or selflessness doesn't factor into it."
"You know, I have a moral code," however practical it is, "but I don't think I have a conscience. I don't think I ever had, not as I understand the concept."
He knows beyond all doubt that Lark has a moral code. He knows because he's seen Lark enforce it, and react to it being breached. "How do you understand the concept?" It's obvious but like fuck he's stupid enough to assume when it comes to Lark.
"It's what guides you to modify your moral compass, what lets you know when something is reprehensible to you." He shrugs. "Or if you listened to my mother, it's God telling you to stop kicking people on the playground and not to steal candy bars."
"I think in most cases it's the inwardly punishing side of the equation." He should be bugged by lack of conscience on Lark's part, but he just... doesn't care. Probably because Lark reminds him so much of Emma, in some ways. "Not not kicking people on the playground because God tells you not to, or because it's disgusting to you, but because you find the idea of making the kid cry more unpleasant than you find the idea of kicking them rewarding."
Lark has never been that person. He has never once felt that hurting someone else was worth giving up his own rewards. But that's not something you say out loud, so he just nods slightly.
"Do you still feel that way? Do you still feel sometimes that it's more unpleasant than doing what you want?"
Scott isn't judging. He doesn't have energy to judge, he doesn't have the desire to judge, and maybe some part of him even envies Lark just a little bit, even while recognizing it.
"This is where I'm supposed to take advantage of the question and come up with some kind of inspiring story about the rewards of morality, isn't it?" He smiled, twisted and tired. Not going to happen. "I do what I have to do. It's almost never what I want to do. It's more unpleasant now than it's ever been."
"There are a lot of sects and religions and paths that believe that not doing what you want is the only way to be truly righteous. Or whatever word the group prefers." And maybe Lark believes in some of that. The Ukan path is all about denial, about taking the hard way around.
"The rewards must be worth it to you even if you hate the way you get there. Right? The ends justify the means?"
"Sure," he agreed, easily. "The reward is that I don't give up on everything I've ever believed to be possible, who I want to be, and have to live with all those deaths having been for nothing - and all the deaths that will follow if I walk away and do nothing." And he means that, by god he means that with every fiber of his being.
But.
"I'm not sure that means the ends always justify the means, but I think sometimes the ends require some pretty unpleasant shit."
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He studies Lark for a moment, He thinks about getting up and moving to the bed, then instead thunks his head back against the wall, with his eyes closed behind the glasses. "Do you know what the primary difference between us is?" He's not going to earn respect points here, but he just doesn't care. "You want to rebuild that pack and be in charge of it."
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"Yes, I do. But it's also a biological imperative for me. If I wasn't driven toward it the way a salmon is driven upstream, I'd probably be..." Not alone. But something else. He shakes his head, unable to even picture being anything but how he is. "My mentor wants me to quit the pack. But that's--it's not retirement. It's suicide. Literally, wolves on their own last a few months if they're lucky. A day if they're not."
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"Who the hell is your mentor and are they stupid?" Scott asks, temporarily distracted from his (self-indulgent) ... revelations? Honesty? Attempts to get something out of his head and into open air, in the general direction of another person? To connect with someone or to hope like hell this gets thrown back in his face.
Fuck, he doesn't know. Something.
It's temporary distraction, anyway. "Retire instead of die hasn't been a possibility for me in a long, long, time."
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Mostly he thinks Tati wants him out of the packs because Lark can't leave well enough alone. It's not enough to have a pack, it has to be the one with the most money, the most power. Lark's ambitions kill people.
"You don't think it will be after your deal?"
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He has to assume there's something. He reaches up and turns the overhead light off, leaving them with lamp light. It'll be an easier transition to bed when they get there.
"No. My deal is going to give me the people I need to make one last run at giving the people who survive a world worth living in, and a choice beyond fighting or dying. I have burned every personal connection I have ever had getting this far, and I can no more stop being a soldier than you can stop being a wolf - but I don't particularly like being a soldier or leader anymore, either." If he ever did.
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Not naive, he decides. Just stupid.
"I think if people live long enough they all burn out on what defines them."
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"Sometimes, you're so busy playing a long game and looking at the big picture, you're blind as hell."
So, yeah, stupid, but not the way he thinks he is.
"
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"You and I both know if it came to it you'd use me. If I was paired with you instead. It's not a bad thing--but we're not selfless people. I don't expect you to be. I don't know that there is such a thing. For all I know, what I'm not sure how to interpret in Tati isn't altruism, it's just laziness and a lack of creativity."
But softer, so much softer, "I believe you want me to have better than I do, though. And I can't say that about most people."
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Getting, being, and having better. Not him having Lark.
Okay, no, he doesn't believe Lark's quite there or will get there until Clark graduates and Scott's still stubbornly there, but he knows Lark being willing to grant even what he has is a big deal.
He casts around for a response and what he ultimately comes up with is a question. "What exactly is selfless? Can you think of a single scenario that counts?" Because Scott isn't sure he can. Not using Lark's definition. No, not even Jean suiciding to save them.
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"I need some mental gymnastics sometimes," he admits, "But no. Even Tati. He owes me; not enough to justify dying in a battle he doesn't understand, but he still owed me a debt."
He breathes out heavily and looks at Scott, hoping for an answer, hoping against it as well. "Can you?"
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He adjusts his position, drops one leg and keeps the other knee bent up. He's being more blunt, less careful and more refined than he'd otherwise be. "We do what works for us. We seek out what rewards us, and we avoid what hurts." That's just - reality. "The only real question that's worth anything is what someone finds rewarding and punishing." He's not cynical, though, not entirely and not about this. "Tati may follow you into a battle he doesn't understand because he finds the idea of living in debt to you more unpleasant than dying. He may also follow you into a battle he doesn't understand because he finds the idea of not supporting you more painful than his own death. They're both ultimately selfish, but he's doing one because he loves you and the other because he's afraid of you, or of losing face. You get the same end result, but what they say about who he is changes."
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"Here's what I don't like: the idea that selfishness is inherently wrong. Or that it's more wrong than selflessness, whatever form that takes. Selfishness is what allows me to choose to stay alive, therefore making me available for the people I love." Or person. He's not sure how many people he loves at all. "Selfishness is actually what keeps not just a person, but an entire civilization, moving along. It's what allows us to have happiness, to experience pleasure. To know ourselves."
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"The balance and order of those things in an individual is what morality and conscience are. Selfishness or selflessness doesn't factor into it."
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"Do you still feel that way? Do you still feel sometimes that it's more unpleasant than doing what you want?"
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"This is where I'm supposed to take advantage of the question and come up with some kind of inspiring story about the rewards of morality, isn't it?" He smiled, twisted and tired. Not going to happen. "I do what I have to do. It's almost never what I want to do. It's more unpleasant now than it's ever been."
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"The rewards must be worth it to you even if you hate the way you get there. Right? The ends justify the means?"
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But.
"I'm not sure that means the ends always justify the means, but I think sometimes the ends require some pretty unpleasant shit."